Comments on German Shepherd Training - 8 Tips on Dealing With Aggression »
May 11, 2010
Sarah @ 6:37 pm
German Shepherd problem (again!)? We aren't first time dog owners but we are first time GSD owners. We have a 4-month-old, very large, male, black and tan German Shepherd Dog that was just kind of dumped on us a few months ago. He's been a lot to handle, and it's been a very frustrating experience. He has seizures which is why I think the other people abandoned him, and he has a lot of behavioral problems that we've had a tough time dealing with and correcting, but we've made a lot of progress in most of those other areas so far. He's coming along nicely in his obedience training.
However, we have a new problem, one that puzzles and concerns us a lot. We have two small children - a 2-year-old boy and a 5-month-old girl - and our dog is a VERY large dog. He's only 4 months old but weighs about 45 or 50 pounds, looks like he's 8 months old or so. He's very tall, very powerful, even at this young age. I am a stay-at-home mom so of course, any interactions between the children and the dog are always supervised because I'm here all day and my babies are too little to wander off without me.
But lately, the dog has been doing some weird things to my 2-year-old, without being provoked at all. For instance, even if he's just been fed, if he catches my 2-year-old walking around eating a sandwich or something he'll have no problem knocking him over and getting the food. He will not attempt to do this with me, my husband, or anyone else, just my little boy. He will only do it when he knows we're not looking for a second, and he's fast, because he knows he's not supposed to. He has even boldly marched up to my son and snapped at his face, just so my son would drop whatever food he had; the dog would then eat it up. I know he knows this is very, very wrong. It makes me so angry at this dog.
Then he started doing something else with my son: My son will be walking around, playing, minding his own business, and the dog will start a running gallop right towards my son and, even if we yell his name or yell "No, heel!" he will gallop at my son full speed, jump up a little, knock my toddler over, and then calmly walk off as if nothing happened.
Why is he doing these things to my toddler, and no one else? He has been making great strides in his obedience training and he will not do this stuff with us, and he mostly ignores my baby girl. I'm concerned. Does he feel like he's got the one-up on my son and he can bully him or steal his food because my 2-year-old can't fight back, whereas my husband and I can? Does this mean the dog is going to be aggressive with my little boy in the future?
So far, he's been a good dog as far as his temperament goes. We had a lot of other problems that we've mostly worked through but it never involved biting or aggression until now. I'm very upset and I'm very confused, because this has just started.
Advice, tips or similar stories are welcome and very much appreciated. I want to correct these serious problems A.S.A.P.
Thanks everyone, for your answers.
And sorry for the long question!!
I had him in the Petsmart obedience classes but I guess that's not the type of trainer needed here, because he sits and stays and does tricks very well but I don't know that the lady there could address these types of questions. I will be contacting a trainer first thing monday and taking you all up on your suggestions.
I worry about the folks saying he won't be a good family dog… I know he's obnoxious now but I care about him. He was kind of dumped on us by neighbors who were moving. They left him on our porch, abandoned him. We guess it was because they couldn't sell him due to the siezures.
Sounds like he is trying to be dominant over your son…which is easy to do with a tot…but it has to stop……..You may also want to have him evaluated for Child Aggression…my freinds GSD was ent off to training and she has two small kids….they called her back and told her the dog had child aggression…which she never picked up on b/c the dog wasn't bad with her kids…would knock them down and such but nothing bad………..she is now trying to have it trained out of her..but they are still unsure References :
Long question. I did not read it but I read bits and it looks like your dog is very aggressive. Although I could not be answering your question. And please don't take your dog back to the pound (if he was from the pound.Ha Ha) References :
My shepherds that I have had do very similar things. I have had 5 shepherds over the course of my 5 year old sisters life, and every one [male and female] bully her and only her.
The one we currently have is around 5 months old - female. She won't knock her over, but she'll snap at my sisters face, take food away, etc.
Why?
My personal guess is that the dog is asserting its dominion of the only one in the family that is roughly the same size.
How to fix.
I can't give you a direct way to fix the problem, but time will help. When my sister was two, we had a pair of shepherds [male & female] that we had to put down early due to a rabid raccoon that attacked them. But they were around 1 when they were put down. While younger pups, they would tease her, but once they reached like 10 months + they knocked it off a little.
Maybe try finding a trainer in your area, and just going for one lesson and asking questions. References :
Your instincts are kicking in - and they are right. This isn't a good dog to have with small children.
GSD's are great dogs - butthey are very complex and need a LOT of discipline. They need structure, and a job - and this one is going to have some real temperament issues as a result of the seizures. It is part of the condition.
I think the safest thing would be for you to ask GSD Rescue for help. This dog is going to require close monitoring of his own, and won't be trustworthy around small children, even without the seizure activity as result of his age. GSD's don';t mature unitl they are almost 4 yearsold, and in the meantime, they can consider smalkl children littermates and competitors. And it doesn't sound like you know that much about this one's background.
If there is any chance you know his breeder, I would get in touch with them first - or contact the GSD rescue and ask to surrender him. This is not a dog I would have near your kids, and he needs to be worked up for whatever is causing the seizure activity.
Good luck- this is not easy, but it's the right thing to do, before your kids kids badly hurt. They come first. References : many years or raising and rescuing herding dogs, living with an epileptic dog, and working with a GSD every day- and many years in child care.
He just does it because he can, the child is small, on his level , walking around with food. He sees him as an equal, not an authority. It doesn't mean necessarily aggression in a dog at 4 months of age, it means you have to keep him separated by a baby gate from the kids when you're not right there with the kids. He can't have access to them when they're walking around with food.
You'll have to work on correcting him and enforcing that he is not a superior to the kids. Get a good trainer to come into your home and show you how to correct him.
we had a german sheperd same colouring called jack i was not a good dog it bite alot but had to be put down. your dog is picking on your son beacuse he is weaker. your dog wants to do the "the pack leader" but you have to show him that you are. by hissing and standing over him if. if you have sky tv i really think you should want the dog whisper by casar malan he is really good and personly i think he is the only one that works watch it and you will get lots of good tips to sort out the problem. german sheperds are not good family dogs. i made that mistake. but keep trying with him good luck References : 1 german shepard (jack) this is ceasar malans web site http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/ - 30k -
You have to set boundries for your dog, you being home all day is a perfect way to work this problem out. Try this, give your son a sandwich, but instead of allowing the dog to get close keep the dog at a distance when he gets close a quick sharp noise (bottle of rocks) will startle the dog. Tell him to sit and give him a treat of his own, once he catches on you can slowly forego the treat and just give him a "good boy" same goes for when your child is playing when you see the dog going for him a loud noise will stop him, once he sit "good boy."
What you have to remember w/ petsmart/petco they don't teach the dog behavior(s) only sit, stay, lay, etc… As you know theres more to Fido then sit and stay. Your job is to find the "balance" for your dog, what that means is figure out how to allow your dog to be a dog within your family structure. You want "indepndant" thinking for him, yet be mindful of your wants and agenda. Which is to live cohesively within your cirlce. When your dog is around the children, you have to make sure your close by so you can re-direct any short commings ie stealing from your child. A GS is a great all around dog, they herd and protect that to me sounds like the perfect "family" dog.BUT, if the family isn't responsible, then it could all go wrong quickly. I can't stress exercising your dog enough, and I mean mentally and physically. Always remember a tired dog is a good dog.
Try this please, make a room (like your childs room) off limits, you can achieve this by putting your children in the room and allow them to play. When your dog comes by to see whats going on "block" him at the doorway a sharp "H" "and a point with and "OUT" should stop him if it doesn't then you have to claim the doorway you this by just walking towards him with a firm yet calm step again "HA" point "OUT." Eventually he will get the point, "aha this room is off limits." Next step is important, once he gets the point and he leaves the "kids room" he'll should just go lay down, if he does this, then this is the time you want to show him affection, never ever show affection to a hyper, scared, mad dog. This is how you create boundries for your dog. But, remember it works both ways, if he has "house" boundries then he needs his freedom away from home. Dog parks are okay, but I would rather take my dogs on excursions into the woods. If you do choose the dog park, you must do two things; tire your dog with a nice 25 minute walk (tired dog good dog) and also develop "boundries" and I can not stress this enough and its something all dog owners should do. LEARN TO READ DOG BODY LANGUAGE. All dogs will tell you when trouble is brewing with other dogs, only when we don't detect it, it's too late. You have my email address below feel free to use it. References : dogology101@ymail.com
At four months old, your dog is a PUPPY. Regardless of how big he is or how much he might resemble an adult dog. He is still a puppy, a baby dog, and very much acting like one. At four months old, he is about the canine equivalent of a two year old.
Stealing food has nothing to do with dominance or aggression in this case. He's doing it because dogs are opportunistic and he has learned that he can. He's learned that walking up to your son and taking his food is rewarding…it gets him a yummy treat that he would otherwise have to watch someone else eating instead of him. He doesn't attempt to do this with others because adults and older children are too attentive and not prone to just dropping food. The snapping is very concerning however as your dog is learning that snapping is an effective behavior for getting what he wants. It can also be dangerous because puppies, just like growing children, are not capable of as much fine motor control and coordination as an adult and your dog might accidentally miss and get your son's face by mistake (or worse, intentionally).
Running at your son an knocking him over is also a puppy behavior. He's playing with him. Not nicely, and this play behavior is not appropriate, but it certainly doesn't sound malicious on the dog's part.
Be prepared for things to get even more challenging. German shepherds are big dogs and they become large quite quickly. However, they are mentally puppies until they are two or three years old. You can't expect him to act like an adult dog. And some time between about 6 months and two years all dogs go through adolescence. During adolescence dogs will test their boundaries and seem to forget all training. How long this obnoxious "butt-head" stage lasts depends on the individual dog. For some dogs it can be the entire duration of adolescence (up to two years), for others it might only last a few weeks or days. The severity of a dog's "misbehavior" also depends on the individual dog. Some dogs are holy terrors during adolescence while others' misbehavior consists mostly of thinking for an extra long time before deciding to follow a command.
Ask your trainer for advice in this situation. If you do not already have a trainer then I cannot recommend enough that you get one since you have two very young children in the house. References :
Yes, it is because your 2 year old is not fighting back. If your 2 year old is talking I would teach him to say No to the dog in a forceful manner. I would also teach your dog to go lay somewhere else when there is food out. References : Almost a CVT and dog owner
Comments on German Shepherd Training - 8 Tips on Dealing With Aggression »
German Shepherd problem (again!)?
We aren't first time dog owners but we are first time GSD owners. We have a 4-month-old, very large, male, black and tan German Shepherd Dog that was just kind of dumped on us a few months ago. He's been a lot to handle, and it's been a very frustrating experience. He has seizures which is why I think the other people abandoned him, and he has a lot of behavioral problems that we've had a tough time dealing with and correcting, but we've made a lot of progress in most of those other areas so far. He's coming along nicely in his obedience training.
However, we have a new problem, one that puzzles and concerns us a lot. We have two small children - a 2-year-old boy and a 5-month-old girl - and our dog is a VERY large dog. He's only 4 months old but weighs about 45 or 50 pounds, looks like he's 8 months old or so. He's very tall, very powerful, even at this young age. I am a stay-at-home mom so of course, any interactions between the children and the dog are always supervised because I'm here all day and my babies are too little to wander off without me.
But lately, the dog has been doing some weird things to my 2-year-old, without being provoked at all. For instance, even if he's just been fed, if he catches my 2-year-old walking around eating a sandwich or something he'll have no problem knocking him over and getting the food. He will not attempt to do this with me, my husband, or anyone else, just my little boy. He will only do it when he knows we're not looking for a second, and he's fast, because he knows he's not supposed to. He has even boldly marched up to my son and snapped at his face, just so my son would drop whatever food he had; the dog would then eat it up. I know he knows this is very, very wrong. It makes me so angry at this dog.
Then he started doing something else with my son: My son will be walking around, playing, minding his own business, and the dog will start a running gallop right towards my son and, even if we yell his name or yell "No, heel!" he will gallop at my son full speed, jump up a little, knock my toddler over, and then calmly walk off as if nothing happened.
Why is he doing these things to my toddler, and no one else? He has been making great strides in his obedience training and he will not do this stuff with us, and he mostly ignores my baby girl. I'm concerned. Does he feel like he's got the one-up on my son and he can bully him or steal his food because my 2-year-old can't fight back, whereas my husband and I can? Does this mean the dog is going to be aggressive with my little boy in the future?
So far, he's been a good dog as far as his temperament goes. We had a lot of other problems that we've mostly worked through but it never involved biting or aggression until now. I'm very upset and I'm very confused, because this has just started.
Advice, tips or similar stories are welcome and very much appreciated. I want to correct these serious problems A.S.A.P.
Thanks everyone, for your answers.
And sorry for the long question!!
I had him in the Petsmart obedience classes but I guess that's not the type of trainer needed here, because he sits and stays and does tricks very well but I don't know that the lady there could address these types of questions. I will be contacting a trainer first thing monday and taking you all up on your suggestions.
I worry about the folks saying he won't be a good family dog… I know he's obnoxious now but I care about him. He was kind of dumped on us by neighbors who were moving. They left him on our porch, abandoned him. We guess it was because they couldn't sell him due to the siezures.
Sounds like he is trying to be dominant over your son…which is easy to do with a tot…but it has to stop……..You may also want to have him evaluated for Child Aggression…my freinds GSD was ent off to training and she has two small kids….they called her back and told her the dog had child aggression…which she never picked up on b/c the dog wasn't bad with her kids…would knock them down and such but nothing bad………..she is now trying to have it trained out of her..but they are still unsure
References :
Long question. I did not read it but I read bits and it looks like your dog is very aggressive. Although I could not be answering your question. And please don't take your dog back to the pound (if he was from the pound.Ha Ha)
References :
My shepherds that I have had do very similar things. I have had 5 shepherds over the course of my 5 year old sisters life, and every one [male and female] bully her and only her.
The one we currently have is around 5 months old - female. She won't knock her over, but she'll snap at my sisters face, take food away, etc.
Why?
My personal guess is that the dog is asserting its dominion of the only one in the family that is roughly the same size.
How to fix.
I can't give you a direct way to fix the problem, but time will help. When my sister was two, we had a pair of shepherds [male & female] that we had to put down early due to a rabid raccoon that attacked them. But they were around 1 when they were put down. While younger pups, they would tease her, but once they reached like 10 months + they knocked it off a little.
Maybe try finding a trainer in your area, and just going for one lesson and asking questions.
References :
Your instincts are kicking in - and they are right. This isn't a good dog to have with small children.
GSD's are great dogs - butthey are very complex and need a LOT of discipline. They need structure, and a job - and this one is going to have some real temperament issues as a result of the seizures. It is part of the condition.
I think the safest thing would be for you to ask GSD Rescue for help. This dog is going to require close monitoring of his own, and won't be trustworthy around small children, even without the seizure activity as result of his age. GSD's don';t mature unitl they are almost 4 yearsold, and in the meantime, they can consider smalkl children littermates and competitors. And it doesn't sound like you know that much about this one's background.
If there is any chance you know his breeder, I would get in touch with them first - or contact the GSD rescue and ask to surrender him. This is not a dog I would have near your kids, and he needs to be worked up for whatever is causing the seizure activity.
Good luck- this is not easy, but it's the right thing to do, before your kids kids badly hurt. They come first.
References :
many years or raising and rescuing herding dogs, living with an epileptic dog, and working with a GSD every day- and many years in child care.
He just does it because he can, the child is small, on his level , walking around with food. He sees him as an equal, not an authority. It doesn't mean necessarily aggression in a dog at 4 months of age, it means you have to keep him separated by a baby gate from the kids when you're not right there with the kids. He can't have access to them when they're walking around with food.
You'll have to work on correcting him and enforcing that he is not a superior to the kids. Get a good trainer to come into your home and show you how to correct him.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=0+1278+1495&aid=628
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/kidsdog1.html
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/kidsdog2.html
References :
we had a german sheperd same colouring called jack i was not a good dog it bite alot but had to be put down. your dog is picking on your son beacuse he is weaker. your dog wants to do the "the pack leader" but you have to show him that you are. by hissing and standing over him if. if you have sky tv i really think you should want the dog whisper by casar malan he is really good and personly i think he is the only one that works watch it and you will get lots of good tips to sort out the problem. german sheperds are not good family dogs. i made that mistake. but keep trying with him good luck
References :
1 german shepard (jack) this is ceasar malans web site
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/ - 30k -
You have to set boundries for your dog, you being home all day is a perfect way to work this problem out. Try this, give your son a sandwich, but instead of allowing the dog to get close keep the dog at a distance when he gets close a quick sharp noise (bottle of rocks) will startle the dog. Tell him to sit and give him a treat of his own, once he catches on you can slowly forego the treat and just give him a "good boy" same goes for when your child is playing when you see the dog going for him a loud noise will stop him, once he sit "good boy."
What you have to remember w/ petsmart/petco they don't teach the dog behavior(s) only sit, stay, lay, etc… As you know theres more to Fido then sit and stay. Your job is to find the "balance" for your dog, what that means is figure out how to allow your dog to be a dog within your family structure. You want "indepndant" thinking for him, yet be mindful of your wants and agenda. Which is to live cohesively within your cirlce. When your dog is around the children, you have to make sure your close by so you can re-direct any short commings ie stealing from your child. A GS is a great all around dog, they herd and protect that to me sounds like the perfect "family" dog.BUT, if the family isn't responsible, then it could all go wrong quickly. I can't stress exercising your dog enough, and I mean mentally and physically. Always remember a tired dog is a good dog.
Try this please, make a room (like your childs room) off limits, you can achieve this by putting your children in the room and allow them to play. When your dog comes by to see whats going on "block" him at the doorway a sharp "H" "and a point with and "OUT" should stop him if it doesn't then you have to claim the doorway you this by just walking towards him with a firm yet calm step again "HA" point "OUT." Eventually he will get the point, "aha this room is off limits." Next step is important, once he gets the point and he leaves the "kids room" he'll should just go lay down, if he does this, then this is the time you want to show him affection, never ever show affection to a hyper, scared, mad dog. This is how you create boundries for your dog. But, remember it works both ways, if he has "house" boundries then he needs his freedom away from home. Dog parks are okay, but I would rather take my dogs on excursions into the woods. If you do choose the dog park, you must do two things; tire your dog with a nice 25 minute walk (tired dog good dog) and also develop "boundries" and I can not stress this enough and its something all dog owners should do. LEARN TO READ DOG BODY LANGUAGE. All dogs will tell you when trouble is brewing with other dogs, only when we don't detect it, it's too late. You have my email address below feel free to use it.
References :
dogology101@ymail.com
At four months old, your dog is a PUPPY. Regardless of how big he is or how much he might resemble an adult dog. He is still a puppy, a baby dog, and very much acting like one. At four months old, he is about the canine equivalent of a two year old.
Stealing food has nothing to do with dominance or aggression in this case. He's doing it because dogs are opportunistic and he has learned that he can. He's learned that walking up to your son and taking his food is rewarding…it gets him a yummy treat that he would otherwise have to watch someone else eating instead of him. He doesn't attempt to do this with others because adults and older children are too attentive and not prone to just dropping food. The snapping is very concerning however as your dog is learning that snapping is an effective behavior for getting what he wants. It can also be dangerous because puppies, just like growing children, are not capable of as much fine motor control and coordination as an adult and your dog might accidentally miss and get your son's face by mistake (or worse, intentionally).
Running at your son an knocking him over is also a puppy behavior. He's playing with him. Not nicely, and this play behavior is not appropriate, but it certainly doesn't sound malicious on the dog's part.
Be prepared for things to get even more challenging. German shepherds are big dogs and they become large quite quickly. However, they are mentally puppies until they are two or three years old. You can't expect him to act like an adult dog. And some time between about 6 months and two years all dogs go through adolescence. During adolescence dogs will test their boundaries and seem to forget all training. How long this obnoxious "butt-head" stage lasts depends on the individual dog. For some dogs it can be the entire duration of adolescence (up to two years), for others it might only last a few weeks or days. The severity of a dog's "misbehavior" also depends on the individual dog. Some dogs are holy terrors during adolescence while others' misbehavior consists mostly of thinking for an extra long time before deciding to follow a command.
Ask your trainer for advice in this situation. If you do not already have a trainer then I cannot recommend enough that you get one since you have two very young children in the house.
References :
Yes, it is because your 2 year old is not fighting back. If your 2 year old is talking I would teach him to say No to the dog in a forceful manner. I would also teach your dog to go lay somewhere else when there is food out.
References :
Almost a CVT and dog owner